Doug Kass: Stock Market's Downside Risk Is Now 4 Times Its Upside Reward
What follows is a compilation of comments/columns in my Diary coupled with updated commentary sent to my hedge fund investors (Seabreeze Partners):
Despite our multiple objections, equities have continued to advance.
Well, I won't back down
No, I won't back down
You could stand me up at the gates of Hell
But I won't back down
No, I'll stand my ground
Won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me down
Gonna stand my ground
And I won't back down
- Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers - I Won't Back Down (Official Music Video)
While many are rejoicing and growing more bullish along with higher equity prices, we see the potential upside rapidly diminishing and the possible downside rapidly expanding. Indeed, according to our calculus, there is now more than 4-times more risk than reward and few individual investment opportunities currently meet our standards (on the long side).
In my hedge fund I have modestly increased our net short exposure from, on average 15% in June, to about 20% in recent days. (Our short book is well diversified.)
Our focus on lower-than-expected (consensus) corporate profits growth, persistently high interest rates and inflation, an ever-expanding budget deficit, elevated valuations and other factors support a continued ursine market outlook and net short exposure.
Here are some updates on our concerns:
* Consensus 2Q2025 S&P EPS has dropped by nearly 4% in the last few months.
* Fixed-income markets provide an equity-like return with little risk or volatility.
* Long-term Treasury yields have further risen (the long bond's yield is +18 basis (already) in July):

The rise in interest rates is a global phenomenon (and worldwide rates appear to be poised to breakout to the upside):

The 30-year Treasury yield (now back to late January 2025 when equities topped) is a thermometer of the bond market’s current fears about:
1. Inflation over the long term
2. A lackadaisical Fed in face of this inflation
3. And a Mississippi River of new Treasury debt flowing into the market
* We see weakness in the U.S. residential real estate market contributing to a consumer-led economic slowdown in 2027. The housing markets (which hits above the belt) have already begun to turn down with a broad and sharp expansion in unsold home inventories across the country — particularly in California and Florida (two states that typically presage inflection points in overall national housing activity).
The spread between the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate and the 10-year yield has been fairly wide since the Fed ended QE and thereby stopped buying mortgage-backed securities and then started quantitative tightening in the second half of 2022 (as they started to unload its MBS holdings). The Fed has by now sold over $600 billion of its MBS and has said many times that it wants to get rid of its MBS entirely and only hold Treasury securities on its balance sheet.
Today the spread between the weekly average 30-year mortgage rate and the weekly average 10-year Treasury yield is 2.34 percentage points. Over the past four decades, the spread has been this wide only four times, twice very briefly just before and at the end of the Dotcom Bust and twice during two panics — when the 10-year yield plunged amid massive quantitative easing and mortgage rates were slower to follow. Now there is no panic, the 10-year Treasury yield is near 4.5% (and likely going higher) and the Fed is doing QT...
* Stocks are very expensive against profits and interest rates:
- The S&P Index’s trailing P/E multiple now stands at 26-times — taking out the 23-times peak of late 2021 and similar to the valuation reached in August 2000 (right before a two-year bear market commenced). The current multiple is more than +30% above the long-run norm. This is even more disquieting in that the real risk-free interest rate (at more than two percent) is double the historical average.
- Equity risk premiums have continued to narrow and are now at a two-decade low (historically portending weak forward investment returns).
- The relationship between the yield on the 10-year Treasury note (4.42%) and the S&P yield (1.24%) is wider than any time in decades:
S&P Dividend Yield vs 10 Year Treasury Yield

* The prospects for fiscal discipline — restraining the deficit and limiting the U.S. debt load — have deteriorated (perhaps explaining the recent rise in open market rates). The failure of DOGE was symptomatic of our nation's indifference towards cutting debt:

What follows are views on the budget crisis from the standpoint of two excellent sources (Bridgewater's Ray Dalio and John Mauldin):
Recently, Bridgewater's Ray Dalio commented on a trip he made to visit Republican and Democratic Congressional leaders in Washington, D.C. in which he discussed the growing U.S. deficits and debt load.
Dalio confirmed what we all know by now, that nothing will be done by both political parties to alter our country's trajectory of debt. Astonishingly, our congressional leaders were in all agreement — there is no political will to steer clear of an economic crisis through tax increases and spending cuts (as they all agreed they would be voted out of office!).
Several weeks ago, Ray Dalio tweeted:
Now that the budget bill has passed Congress, we can see what the projections look like for deficits, government debt, and debt service expenses. In brief, the bill is expected to lead to spending of about $7 trillion a year with inflows of about $5 trillion a year, so the debt, which is now about 6x of the money taken in, 100 percent of GDP, and about $230,000 per American family, will rise over ten years to about 7.5x the money taken in, 130 percent of GDP, and $425,000 per family. That will increase interest and principal payments on the debt from about $10 trillion ($1 trillion in interest, $9 trillion in principal) to about $18 trillion (of which $2 trillion is interest payments), which will lead to either a big squeezing out (and cutting off) of spending and/or unimaginable tax increases, or a lot of printing and devaluing of money and pushing interest rates to unattractively low levels. This printing and devaluing is not good for those holding bonds as a storehold of wealth, and what’s bad for bonds and US credit markets is bad for everyone because the US Treasury market is the backbone of all capital markets, which are the backbones of our economic and social conditions. Unless this path is soon rectified to bring the budget deficit from roughly 7% of GDP to about 3% by making adjustments to spending, taxes, and interest rates, big, painful disruptions will likely occur.
From John Mauldin:
Another reason the federal debt keeps growing is we keep expanding the federal government’s responsibilities. It does all kinds of things that were once left to the private sector, or pays for state and local governments to do them. Once in place, these expanded roles are almost impossible to reverse. More often, they just get bigger. Hence the debt.
The latest effort to rationalize the budget will, unfortunately, do nothing of the sort. Let’s first visit the budget projections from the bipartisan and non-ideological Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.
This is the CRFB projection for how OBBBA (the Senate version, which is what finally passed) will affect the debt.

Going into this year, CRFB estimated the federal debt would grow to 117% of GDP by 2034, assuming current law (including expiration of the 2017 tax cuts) remained in place. The OBBBA law as passed by the House would have increased this to 124%.
The Senate—which in our system is supposedly the more prudent and thoughtful chamber—made the debt impact even worse at 127%. And if the expiring provisions are made permanent, as is highly likely, it will be more like 130%.
Note also, none of this includes the impact of extraordinary events like war, pandemics, recessions, natural disasters, etc. Do you think we’ll get through the next 10 years without some such thing happening? Any of those will blow up the debt even more.
* The AI trade continues to dominate the investment landscape. It remains unclear (to us) that the hundreds of billions of AI capital spending will yield a reasonable return in the reasonable future. As well, we currently view AI “as the world’s most expensive mirror”:
From Cumberland Advisor's David Kotok who quotes me in his recent commentary:
One final thought: Where people get information and how they curate it is a growing issue. I offer readers sources and citations for as much as I can. The perils of relying on faulty informants is growing, IMO. As Churchill supposedly said, “A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on.” (As is often the case, this aphorism actually goes back a long way. The renowned English Baptist preacher Charles. H. Spurgeon voiced it in a sermon in 1859, and the sentiment about the relative velocity of lies can be traced back to the Roman poet Virgil.)
Doug Kass (Seabreeze Partners) eloquently addressed a related issue and gave me permission to quote him. Thank you, Dougie. Here’s an excerpt from Doug’s morning missive on July 8, when he wrote about an article that reflected a misunderstanding of Grok and how it works:
It indirectly shows how AI is terribly misunderstood by the masses, and it indirectly gives a lot of perspective about the stock market. My point is NOT about the politics discussed in the article. I stay out of it, as it is unproductive. The point of my missive is what the author (conservative) does not understand. Grok was not re-programmed overnight to be “woke” because President Trump and Elon Musk are at odds again, as the author implies in the article. The issue, which has been well discussed, and is not even really a point anymore, is that generative AI can only take what is out there and spit it back out in a different format. It does not think, it only regurgitates. Thusly, if most of the news tells you the tragedy in Texas was due to a certain reason, the AI bots will tell you the same thing. Not complicated. They are the world’s most expensive mirrors. On the other hand, you could drop a billion apples in front of the world’s most powerful cameras attached to the world’s most powerful AI, and it could never come up with the theory of gravity if it already did not exist. Not new info, I have beat that horse to death, not the point of my little rant. If a journalist has no idea what is going on and how AI really works and what it does, what do you think the average person knows about AI?
Doug concludes (and I concur):
Same for the average politician or government official, frankly. They all kind of know zero. As in squat. Zilch. Nada. Zip. Jack. Bubkes. They just know what they are told, which is AI is this brand-new super genius technology that is about to find a cure for cancer and will put everyone out of work (but somehow grow GDP 10% per year at the same time).
* Much more bullish investment sentiment has followed higher stock prices. Most traditional metrics are in the 98%-tile and lie at levels that are very poor launching pads for future investment returns:
Examining the Bullish Case
Rows and floes of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere
I've looked at clouds that way
But now they only block the sun
They rain and snow on everyone
So many things I would have done
But clouds got in my way
I've looked at clouds from both sides now
From up and down, and still somehow
It's cloud illusions I recall
I really don't know clouds at all
- Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now.
Investors are now almost universally bullish. I have argued that investors are overly positive given the plethora of uncertainties.
Let’s Look At Both Sides Now starting with the headwinds:
Here is a partial list of my continuing concerns:
* We face the highest geopolitical risks in many decades (which will not be resolved quickly).
* We face the largest level of social and political risks in the U.S. since the Vietnam war.
* We face the greatest chance of "slugflation" (slowing economic growth and sticky inflation) since the 1970s.
* We face the biggest threat that the U.S. dollar and capital markets will no longer be a "safe haven" in modern history.
* We face the greatest debt load and deficit ever — and neither party seems to favor any fiscal discipline whatsoever.
* We face the largest capital spending spree in history (on artificial intelligence) — though the return on that investment is less certain (dot-com, it feels like Deja vu all over again.)
* We face a viable alternative to equities in fixed income (for the first time in 15 years) as bonds present an equity-equivalent yield with limited risk and volatility.
Regardless of my ursine view, at the suggestion of Oaktree's Howard Marks, I have made a list of what I believe to be the most significant and now consensus bullish arguments that could continue to buoy valuations. I will follow each point with an explanation of why I differ with some of these bullish arguments:
* There is a Fed Put: President Trump has announced that he will replace Fed Chairman Jerome Powell with a dove, leading to lower short-term interest rates.
The Fed now expects inflation to rise over the next few months, which is not an ideal setting for lower rates. A Fed Chair monitored and under the watchful eye of President Trump will likely produce a more uncertain monetary policy. I am not sure that a Fed Chair (with a committee of Board of Governors) will be as closely influenced by a Fed chief that works close or is even at the beckon call of the President. The capital markets could grow quite worried (with a dependent and not independent Fed); American Exceptionalism might be threatened with the selling of our currency and bonds, especially if the inflationary backdrop grows more problematic. Institutional credibility and independence will be challenged in a very public (and market!) way. Finally, wasn't there a lesson to be learned in 2024 when a one-percentage point cut in the Fed Funds rate produced higher intermediate and longer-term Treasury and mortgage rates? If this occurred, the equity risk premium would narrow ever more (with reduced S&P profits and higher risk-free interest rates).
* The current Administration is pro-business and economic growth and deregulation are the cornerstones of Trump policy.
President Trump's Big Beautiful Bill incorporates the notion of spending cuts with economic incentives (skewed toward corporations and the wealthy). There could be a populist pushback in a consumer-led slowdown. Given the deteriorating state of the business and economic cycles the outcomes of pro-business policy might be disappointing relative to expectations -- especially with the margin pressures of the evolution from globalism to nationalism.
* Geopolitical risks have been reduced with the recent aggressive attack against Iran's nuclear facilities.
Yes, for now. But there remain potential regional hotbeds that represent bonafide threats.
* With a U.S. service economy expanding, recessions are no longer likely.
I would say recessions are not endangered. But a service economy will likely cushion the magnitude of economic downturns. That said, AI could be threat to this theory of "stability," should a larger-than-expected displacement of jobs occur. The resumption of student loan repayments could further pressure personal expenditures. Also, as stated above, the shift from globalism to nationalism might prove to be a greater headwind to S&P earnings per share than the consensus expects.
* Corporate profits will grow steadily and above expectations over the balance of the year.
The rate of S&P EPS growth likely peaked in 1Q 2025. Who pays for higher tariffs, consumer or corporations? An estimated $400 billion of tariffs represent 20% of total corporate profits. It’s a Sophie's Choice: The imposition of tariffs will likely deliver either higher inflation or lower corporate profits.
* While the budget deficit and U.S. debt load are well above expectations, they are not threats, as a rising budget/debt as a percentage of GDP has been in place for years.
DOGE failed and both sides of the political view lack fiscal discipline. I would argue that, with annual interest payments now in excess of the defense budget, we are closer to seeing the reemergence of the Bond Vigilantes than ever.
* AI will provide a fountain of corporate productivity, additive to revenues and profits.
Thus far the commercial applications and user sets of AI are minimal, though this will likely change. But, as I have also argued, it is unclear whether the trillions of dollars of capital investment (by the hyperscalers and others) will result in an adequate return on invested capital. Moreover, the AI trade started in late 2022 and is almost three years old.
* Higher equities will deliver a wealth effect to the consumer and offset housing's weakness.
I agree that the consumer will benefit from a continuation of higher stock prices - but remember the S&P Index has simply returned to its late January/early February level. As to housing, the contraction is growing closer in focus and, given the disproportionate role of housing on consumer wealth, a drop in home prices could offset some of the wealth effect provided from the benefit from higher stock prices.
* American Exceptionalism is intact; if nothing else there is no alternative.
In a recent letter to investors, I suggested that it is time to rethink American Exceptionalism - and that the recent trend away from investing in the U.S. could reduce demand for domestic investments (at the margin) and the sense that we are a reliable safe haven.
* Price earnings multiples (at 23-times) are inflated, but in past periods of speculation valuations have been even higher.
This is where I disagree strongly with the bullish cabal. Isn't this simply "the greater fool's theory," in which investors are relying on a greater fool to bail them out? This hasn't worked well in the past when valuations were excessive. As reflected in an earlier exhibit in today's commentary, (historically speaking) current valuations are a poor launching point for future returns.
* The market's advance has been broadening out.
Yes, it has broadened out. But look at the lagging Russell Index, which has not been crowing. Let's keep a bead on market breadth in the weeks ahead.
* There is a massive build up in cash reserves that will flow back into equities.
The "cash on the sidelines" is as dumb as wood as an argument. First, cash should be looked at not in the absolute ($7 trillion), but as a percentage of stock market capitalization. As such, cash reserves are actually at the low end of history. Second, the maturation of the baby boomers suggests a lot of the cash is sticky (and being invested in equity-like returns now available in the fixed-income markets).
* Market structure favors the bulls: The dominance of passive investing products and strategies has reduced "the float' of equities.
This is accurate. When combined with trillion-dollar buybacks (yearly), a rising demand for stocks is being met with a diminished float. For now, everyone is on the same side of the boat. Of course, when the worm turns (and equity fund redemptions rise) -- and it will eventually -- the movie goes in reverse and there will be few buyers (I am old enough to remember when the S&P slipped to 4850 2.5 months ago as sellers overwhelmed buyers.
* There is a new generation of value-insensitive investors and speculators that will buoy equities.
“There are no new eras – excesses are never permanent.”
- Bob Farrell
Bottom Line
While equities continue to climb, risks are mounting in The Bull Market In Complacency.
This commentary was orginally posted in Doug's Daily Diary on TheStreet Pro.
At the time of publication, Kass had no positions in any securities mentioned.
BY Doug Kass · Jul 16, 2025, 5:25 PM EDT
























